If you have been paying any attention at all, you will know that the hot topic in the news right now is Gay Marriage and what has happened with California’s prop h8te.
In case you don’t know… California voters just changed their Constitution to take away CIVIL rights of a minority group. This is unprecedented and should be considered another black eye in this country’s racist & sexist history. Issues such as this should NEVER be put to a popular vote. In some states if you were to put segregation on the ballot it would pass.
It used to be against the law for two people of different races to marry. Something like 70 percent of Americans at that time were against it and it was outlawed in a good number of states. Thank jeebus for the courts because it was the courts that granted the right. It would have been a crime for Barack Obama’s parents to marry. WOW.
So.. I do think what happened in California should be and will be overturned.
The arguments against are tired and outdated. This idea that somehow by letting gay people marry it is going to destroy the fabric of society is ridiculous at best.
Back during my intolerant Republican days I used to have a somewhat sour opinion of the gay lifestyle. My arguments included the whole “marriage is defined as a union between MAN and WOMAN”, “god made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve”, “what’s next? man and beast?”, etc. etc., blah blah blah. I would suggest that children raised by gay people would see it as another life choice to make. This was before I figured out my religion was bullshit and there was no god. At least not the god religious groups talk about. I realized that what other people do and how they live their lives, is not of my business. OR IS IT YOURS. Who are you to regulate society?
Once I dropped religion… all my judgments of others went away. All my prejudices and preconceptions went out the window. I started to put myself in others shoes and thought, would I want someone telling me who I can marry or if I should carry a child to term. How would I feel if I were raped and became pregnant only to realize that I was living in a state where it was against the law?
All of these are morality issues created by religious ideals. Morality should NEVER be legislated. Keep your religion out of my politics. Separation of Church and State remember? These are the fundamental principles of AMERICA. ALL men are equal. There are hundreds of gods throughout history and just because ONE god, your god, says one thing, doesn’t make it true.
Until the day the sky opens up and miracles are performed and I hear A god lay down the law…. I am not going to take your word for it. That is YOUR fantasy, YOUR boogie man, not mine. Hell… if that ever happened there STILL would be people would would argue.
But for the sake of argument, if god is so against gay people, why are there gay people? Don’t you think this is one mistake he wouldn’t have made? Oh… being gay is a choice… riiiiiight. Why would anyone choose to be different and risk intoleration by fellow members of society? It’s becoming more and more the trusted opinion that a person is born gay and when they find the gene and/or prove through DNA that people are born this way… there are going to be a bunch of people who need to apologize and should feel ashamed of themselves. I am sure it will feel to them much like it felt to those who learned that the earth was indeed, ROUND.
But even if it were a choice… WHO CARES!? Don’t we have the freedom to make our own choices? Just as you have the freedom to worship whatever you like.
But you know… none of that matters because it is all about basic civil rights of a minority group now. And again, public policy regarding a group of people should NEVER be left to a vote by the people. I have faith though that times are changing and people will have no choice but to let gay people have EQUAL rights OR the courts will decide for them. There is no way that our system as it is set up will allow for people to be discriminated against. I hold that hope. This thing in California just awoke the sleeping beast and gay people are not going to take this shit anymore. I hope that we look back at this prop h8te as the straw that broke the camel’s back.
While I am at it… The Mormon Church should have their tax exempt status revoked. I heard they put up 20 million dollars to pass prop h8te and were making robo calls telling people how to vote. Let me get this right… the MORMON church is taking a morality stance… the mormon church?!?! This from a group of people who think marriage is defined as a man and ten women. A group who’s fundamentals are based on the word of ONE guy stumbling through the woods finding some plates (that only he could see) which gave him (only him) the word of god. How retarded are you people? Seriously…. people are born gay just as you were born stupid. Thank god!
How come these hot button issues always have religion at the root? And it always seems to come from the bible thumping non-thinkers who cherry pick obscure passages to validate their beliefs, YET at the same time ignoring more prominent passages that talk about everything from murder to incest. How come you pick and choose? Doesn’t bother you though that Noah and his offspring would have come as a result of incest? “Of course not silly… the story of noah is just a metaphor. “ Cherry picking bible thumper.
If you are religious and read this blog… please try and explain your position to me…. and explain it as if I were a child. Why does it bother you so much if two people who love each other, commit to each other? Who really cares of marriage is “redefined”?? How does this affect or hurt you?
But please don’t give me this crap about “redefining” marriage because it’s a 5000 year institution… or gods will. Marriage has been redefined so many times throughout history by straight people already. There used to be a time when marriage was a tool to acquire land and was left up to the father to trade his daughter away. If left up to gods will, Mormans would continue to marry ten wives regardless of their ages.
Gay marriage will only strengthen those families not harm yours. Children have grown up in gay households and they don’t turn gay. There are millions of unwanted children who could be adopted by loving families… gay families… Why is this wrong? Please explain to me as if I were a child.
It can’t be because children should have both a mother AND a father. I think we all would agree that ideally that is the best situation. A child should have it’s father or mother around. But that’s not real life. Real life we have single mothers, fathers, aunts & uncles, grandparents, all raising children. Remember… it used to take a village to raise a child. Even if it is the village people. ;) The only absolute truth is that YOUR marriage has less than a 50 percent chance now of making it. As the lead video suggests there is more of an argument to ban divorce than there is to ban gay marriage. Your divorces are harming society!!
And these “Civil Unions” are not good enough. There are basic rights being left out of civil union status. They don’t want more rights or new rights…. just the SAME rights. But you know… had there been proposal that made civil unions the SAME as marriage except in name, people would have no problem and this would be a non-issue. Instead you had to make this about religion and your arguments are outdated and flawed. And now I think, it’s too late. You religious people could have had that…. now your position is going make sure that marriage cannot be defined as between man and women because you cannot deny or take back rights. I think this prop h8te will turn out to be the best thing that ever happened for gay rights.
It cannot be said enough, you cannot grant a people a right, and then take it away. You cannot amend a constitution to discriminate. Again, this is unprecedented and the rule of law will prevail.
Gay people should have just as right to be miserable as the rest of us.
I could really go on all day but I could never say it as well as this,
Now how do you feel?
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November 16th, 2008 at 4:05 am
[...] seems as if the hot topic these days is Gay marriage and the recent passing of California’s Prop h8te. Needless to say, I have a lot to say [...]
November 16th, 2008 at 5:34 am
I don’t think the goverment should have any say in constitutional rights such as this. It’s a choice between two people and the law is based on religious ideals of the past. Should seperate church and state as much as possible.
However, it was *voted* on by the people of california for prop 8 to change the word usage in the california constitution. That being said if we overturn the voting process what good would the voting process be in the first place? It would undermine the process we have in goverment. Do I get the right after that to overturn a particular president from being elected?
Again, not my place to choose whether or not gay marraige should be legal beyond that of our voting process. Gay rights advocates can submit a new proposition to amend the california constitution to the words and have it voted on in due process like everyone else.
November 16th, 2008 at 7:47 am
Frumph… it’s not that it would undermine the voting process… its about certain issues that invoke morality judgments from religious people should NOT be put to a vote. The majority of California voters that voted for it cited religious arguments for their position. THIS IS WRONG.
AGAIN… put segregation or even slavery to a vote in some deep south states and see what happens. Should that be ok because it was the will of the people??
No.. the best thing about our country is that our government and constitutions protect minorities from majorities.
It couldn’t be more clear within our history, every major civil rights issue has been decided by the courts, at times when the majority of Americas were opposed to whatever was being made RIGHT. Slavery, voting rights, Jim Crowe, interracial marriage, abortion, etc.. etc.. It was the courts that gave the rights, NOT the people.
It is sad… those of you who are against gay marriage are going to be looked back on in history the same way we look at people who wanted slavery, who thought woman shouldnt vote, who thought Barack Obama’s parents shouldn’t be able to marry, & just as wrong.
Remember those people who taunted the black students when the schools were being integrated in Alabama? There is a famous photo of them shouting behind a black girl just trying to get into school alive and without too much spit in her hair. Some of these people later in life admitted to feeling great shame over how they acted…. but history will always remember the picture…
November 16th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Nobody will be shocked if I call you a liberal. If they’ve read my blog, I will get cast as a conservative. I do believe that ‘it’ is a sin. But, that is not to say I have any right to interfere with what one may practice in there private life. In the past, that practice was sub rosa. But, that has changed and the practitioners have ‘come up and out’ and do it in a way that confronts those who disagree on a broad base of issues. It is the wish of all people to have their wishes fulfilled. That isn’t red or blue or left or right. There is also a saying to be careful what you wish for. We’re also warned to not fight battles we can’t win.
Civil union is fine by me. There are legal and financial reasons that address fairness. Marriage is another bag of worms. Any number of interest are challenged. You don’t spit in Superman’s face or piss into the wind or mess around with Jim.
There are various ways to be dogmatic. Is it possible, you are what you vilify? Respect also comes from giving respect. Frankly, I haven’t seen a lot of that in your recent zeal. You are pretty full of yourself at the moment but it is based on the come. GL but WP must wait until after the turn and river.
November 16th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
First you call me a bigot and now I am a liberal. Which is it? and do you know the meaning of either? You know what Ken… I could care less if I have any respect from you.
If anyone is a bigot, it is you. You are an old man set in your ways, and it is no surprise that you would be against gay marriage. It would also be no surprise at all if this wasn’t the only civil rights issue you had been against over the years. Of the groups in California that voted for this, the elderly overwhelmingly supported it. Where it was split pretty much 50/50 down various lines. (other than black) … It was well over 70 percent of senior citizens. People who are probably just as racist as they are bigots.
Did you read my blog posts at all? Because I ask several questions… One of them is why are you so against gay marriage? Your answer is, “civil union is fine by me”.
What is it about gay people getting married that bothers you so much?
It appears as if you hold a religious view of the subject. How is this a problem to society, rather than your problem?
November 19th, 2008 at 5:58 am
My point was that liberals can be bigots too and there is a fine line between it and reasoned conclusion.
Religion isn’t reasoned; it is faith. This country is also a religious entity though separated by a wise constitution. Marriage has long had a religious component. Before the gay marriage brouhaha, it was over secular marriage being somehow less. Reason doesn’t exist in this battle although you keep trying to assign reason. The main fight is over legal rights; so why insist on marriage? The constitution says to keep it all separated.
Your response is, unfortunately, what I expected. You appear to be in a cycle that exists for all who can’t break free of it. A bigot is always wrong — even when he’s right. He has too narrow a perspective. And, an inadequate respect for other views.
I have two blogs up today that are meant for you more than others. I hope you’ll accept them in the manner intended.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Ken if you think I am going to waste 1 minute on my time on anything you wrote, you are crazy. Especially after you seem to have ignored everything I said.
And you still refuse to answer any of the questions I posed. And you have now TWICE called me bigot. At first I took great offense to that but it is clear now that you don’t know what a bigot is. It must be a new word you learned.
So let me make it a little easier for you,
Bigot - Noun -
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
Seems like that applies to you more than it does me. You are the one against gay “marriage”. You also seem to be bothered about any “opinion” I have.
The bottom line here is that you are fighting/debating a word based on a religious principles and not the rule of law. If this issue isn’t a violation of church and state, I don’t know what is… and I will never understand.
Again… its NOT THE WORD… ITS THE RIGHTS. Had “civil unions” had the same rights as marriage than there would be no problems.
For you it is about the word, for gay people it is about EQUAL rights.
November 19th, 2008 at 10:24 am
BTW.. before I get a lesson on the definitions of the word bigot…. I understand there are other ways to use the word… HOWEVER , anyone in their right mind who hears BIGOT, think of ONE definition.
It’s as if I used the word “nigger” to describe a person of ignorance…
November 20th, 2008 at 6:05 am
I must bow to your superior knowledge and psychic abilities. I thank you for your tolerant responses — making you the far better person.
NH WPOM
November 21st, 2008 at 1:43 am
I am glad you have come to your senses. I was beginning to think you were going senile.
November 26th, 2008 at 7:30 am
Yes, in a way I regret that not happening. It would have been something we could have shared.
December 7th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
It always amazes me when people voice anti-gay, anti-black, anti-muslim, anti-women etc… opinions in a private setting let alone a public one. Now we have part of the country that’s supposedly the leader of the free world stamping all over people’s rights. Where i am from we have civil unions (not marriage) but legally the rights are the same so it’s only a wording change to keep the religious extreme happy.
That anti divorce clip is just freaky aye, where do you guys find these people?
December 7th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
“the best thing about our country is that our government and constitutions protect minorities from majorities”
Oh really? Like the time the courts said it was ok to intern anyone of Japanese descent during WWII? Or today when a minority who likes to consume drugs gets thrown into jail for a victimless crime by a majority? As for our constitutions protecting minorities…lol…don’t you know that the government doesn’t pay any attention to that piece of paper anymore? They are about to throw a minority, Plexico Buress, in jail for carrying a gun without a permit…majority tyranny over the minority…and that right is enshrined in the 2nd amendment…he didn’t even harm anyone else…WTF?!
“It was the courts that gave the rights, NOT the people.”
Courts gave rights to people? Wait, isn’t it the people who give rights to the courts, and not the other way around? We the people have inalienable rights…if the courts do not want to recognize that, then they are operating outside the law, not within it.
If the people don’t have rights, and the courts give them rights…how do they do that? Where do the courts receive the power to bestow rights upon people?
The whole gay marriage debate is stupid. There should be no marriage debate. Why is the government even involved in marriage in the first place?
Marriage is between two individuals, who love each other and want to make a commitment to one another…some think they need a church to sanction it, others believe they need the government to sanction it…but in the end, wtf..
Why do we need a government official to sanction marriage?! The government shouldn’t be in the marriage business in the first place, and the only reason gays want “the right to marry” is because they want a piece of the action: more rights, more tax breaks, more government enforced privileges…what about single people?
Do single people not deserve a tax break? A tax break for married couples, gay or straight, is a tax hike for single people…screw that…that is ridiculous. Just because married people were wrong for asking for a handout from government, now gays think they can get in line and ask for one as well? Nope, unless you want to extend the same privileges to EVERYONE, regardless of marital status (which would totally ruin the privileged status of married as far as governmental privilege is concerned) then the gay marriage movement is not about CIVIL RIGHTS, it is about another special interest handout.
Stop calling special interest handouts, CIVIL RIGHTS. They are not…gays want a part of this:
http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/ObjectID/E0366844-7992-4018-B581C6AE9BF8B045/catID/F896EE61-B80C-4FE1-B1687AC0F07903BA/118/304/ART/
“tax benefits, estate planning benefits, and government benefits”…this is bullshit…single people and gays are getting screwed over. The solution? Divest the married people of their preferential treatment…don’t add yourself to the plunder at the expense of groups not within your special designation of “marriage”.
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